There are conversations that challenge you. And then there are conversations that help you start to reframe everything.
My conversation with Jo Hargreaves — psychotherapist, writer, speaker, pastor, and known as the Faith Filled Therapist — was the latter.
Jo explores the intersection of theology and therapy. But what struck me most wasn’t the science. It was how consistently and unapologetically she gave God the credit for it.
“When we’re learning stuff about ourselves, how can we give God the credit and honor him for how we are designed?”
That question is the heartbeat of everything Jo does. And it’s the thread that runs through this entire conversation.
In This Conversation, Jo Hargreaves Shares:
👉 How neuroscience keeps catching up to what Scripture already said
👉 Why perfect love really does cast out fear — at a neurobiological level
👉 What’s actually happening in your body when you’re overwhelmed and can’t seem to connect with God
👉 The practice of “regulate before you renew” and why it matters
👉 How your early attachment wounds may be quietly shaping your relationship with God
👉 What biblical meditation actually looks like in the ordinary rhythms of life
👉 Why flourishing is holistic — spirit, soul, and body
When Science Catches Up to Scripture
Jo didn’t set out to build a bridge between theology and therapy. It happened gradually — and then all at once.
As she deepened her study in both neuroscience and Scripture, she kept arriving at the same place from two different directions. The first moment that stopped her:
“The brain is not able to be anxious and grateful at the same time. I thought, well, this is great, but I’ve read it already in Philippians 4 verse 6.”
But it was a specific moment on Instagram, during early lockdown, that shifted everything. She felt what she describes as a Holy Spirit nudge — not just to reconcile these two things in her own mind, but to start teaching others that they were the same.
One discovery in particular stayed with her. She had been thinking and praying about love — wondering what its effect might be — when she felt led to research it.
“The effect of love is the flooding of oxytocin in your system and how oxytocin gets rid of cortisol in your system, which is what is associated with fear and stress. And then again, felt like this kind of revelation of gosh, wow, perfect love really does cast out fear at a neurobiological level.”
She’s quick to deflect the credit.
“I cannot take credit at all. It’s God’s kindness just going, why don’t you just teach people about this?”
Spirit, Soul, and Body — God’s Design, Not a New Age Idea
One of the most clarifying moments in our conversation came when Jo addressed something she feels strongly about — the idea that an embodied, holistic view of faith isn’t borrowed from new age thinking. It belongs to God.
She points to 1 Thessalonians 5:23, what she calls her framework for everything:
“God making us holy and whole in our spirit, soul and body.”
And she’s direct about the implications.
“This holistic view of our faith, this embodied view of things impacting us at a spiritual level and a neurobiological level and an emotional level isn’t some kind of slightly woo new age thing, it’s God’s design.”
She goes further — and I love this:
“The new age have taken and twisted some of it and perverted it. I feel slightly indignant there and want to bring that back. We claim it for God.”
What’s Happening in Your Body When You’re Under Stress
I asked Jo to help us understand what’s actually going on — mind, body, and faith — particularly when we’re under stress.
She explained that when we’re in a place of fear, stress, or spiritual questioning, we often create a story about ourselves. Usually, she says, it’s shame-based. But what looks like a spiritual problem is often something more immediate.
“The way that we behave is usually very indicative of a state, a nervous system state. Are we in a place of fear? Are we shut down? Are we overstimulated?”
And her invitation in those moments is simple but profound:
“We can come to Jesus whatever state we are in, not while we’ve got our spiritual ducks in a row.”
She also shared something I hadn’t considered — that when we’re deeply overwhelmed, the part of our brain responsible for wise decision-making essentially goes offline.
“When you’re very overwhelmed, when you’re dysregulated, this part essentially goes offline. It’s a bit like bad Wi-Fi.”
Which is why, she explains, what we do to regulate matters so much — not just therapeutically, but spiritually.
Regulate Before You Renew
This is one of the most practical and memorable things Jo said in our entire conversation.
“Regulate before you renew — your body takes in new information better when you’re regulated.”
She’s careful to note this isn’t always the reality of life — pointing to David writing Psalms from a cave, hiding from people who wanted to kill him. He wasn’t regulated. But the principle holds: when we can create even a small moment of regulation, it creates the conditions for genuine renewal.
So what actually helps? Jo named several practices — all grounded in Scripture, all backed by what she’s learning in neuroscience.
Gratitude. She describes it as deeply regulating — a practice the Bible calls us to not as toxic positivity, but as a grounding, serotonin-boosting, reward-system-activating discipline. And she’s clear on what it isn’t:
“It’s not saying be grateful for all things. That’s kind of gaslighting yourself with God’s word. It’s an invitational practice into gratitude when you’re loading the dishwasher or going to pick up the kids.”
Breath work. She’s upfront that this can sound new age — so she always prefaces it.
“Who gave you your breath? It’s God’s breath in our lungs. Even just making an extended exhale takes you into the parasympathetic nervous system, the part of your nervous system where you’re grounded.”
Worship. This one surprised me in the best way. Jo explains that when we sing, our vagus nerve — the nerve that runs from our brain stem through every major organ — activates. And that activation is a key part of what brings our nervous system back online.
“When we sing, that vagus nerve comes online again. Things like noticing, meditation, worship, prayer have a huge impact on you not just spiritually but at every level of your being, right in the soma, right in your body.”
Biblical meditation. And by this, Jo is clear — she doesn’t mean emptying your mind.
“I’m talking about filling your mind, not emptying your mind and becoming at one with the universe. This is filling your mind and connecting with the creator of the universe.”
She uses the Hebrew word horgor — to chew on something, like a cow chewing cud — to describe what this actually looks like. Not a formal quiet time. Not a rigid routine. But taking a verse into your day and returning to it.
“When I’m driving to pick up my kids and I start to find myself having an anxious thought — I pause, I breathe, and instead I say, the truth is, surely your goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life. I interrupt my anxious thought loop.”
Notice, Name, Reframe
Jo offers a simple framework for what taking thoughts captive actually looks like in practice — because she acknowledges that for many people, it sounds like it’s reserved for the spiritually elite.
“For me, it means that if I’m driving along and I’m having an imaginary argument with somebody in my head or I’m revisiting something, I’ve just got my reflexes good enough now through practice to notice that I’m doing it.”
She calls it: notice, name, and reframe.
“Just those processes are like a bit of a stop sign in my brain to go, hold on a minute. Do we want to go this way? And then a reframe. And that’s where God’s word can come in with just really helpful reframes in your very ordinary life.”
How You Attach to People Shapes How You Relate to God
This part of our conversation hit close to home.
Jo draws a direct line between attachment theory — how our early relationships with caregivers formed us — and how we relate to God as adults. She’s careful to note these theories are roadmaps, not terrain, and that Scripture always has the final say. But she finds the intersection deeply useful.
She describes three insecure attachment tendencies and what they can look like spiritually:
Anxious attachment — don’t leave me, I’ll do anything to earn your love. In seasons of transition, this can show up as deep spirals of nostalgia, fear, and a desperate need for reassurance.
Avoidant attachment — I’ve got it, I’ll keep you at arm’s length. Jo names this as her own tendency — one she’s had to actively work through in her relationship with God.
“I can have very sophisticated defense mechanisms. I can really think, I don’t care, I’m fine — even when things are quite painful.”
Disorganized attachment — swinging between the two. Don’t leave me. Actually, leave me alone.
And the good news she offers:
“Attachment isn’t a diagnosis over somebody and it’s not fixed, it’s changeable. A predisposition isn’t a predestination.”
What all three have in common underneath, she says, is the same need — to feel safe, seen, and loved. Which, she points out, is exactly what the gospel offers.
“Isn’t that just God condescending down to earth to put on skin, to walk amongst us and say, I see you, I know you, I understand you, I’m with you.”
For the Leader in Transition
If you’re in a season of change, disruption, or uncertainty — Jo has something worth sitting with.
She encourages those with avoidant tendencies to resist the urge to move on too quickly, and to take time to hear the full story of what’s actually happening inside.
For those who are anxiously attached, she points to Romans 8:38 as a grounding scripture for exactly these seasons.
“Nothing can separate me from the love of God that’s in Christ Jesus.”
And she offers a phrase worth remembering:
“When your reaction’s hysterical, it’s normally historical.”
Not to shame the reaction — but to trace it back, find its roots, and invite God into the healing.
What Flourishing Looks Like
I closed by asking Jo what flourishing means to her. She pointed immediately to Psalm 92:13.
“Planted in the house of the Lord, they will flourish in the courts of our God.”
And then she made it personal — and honest.
“Flourishing has to be holistic — spirit, soul and body. It would be unrealistic for me to say I’m really flourishing spiritually but I am utterly sedentary and I don’t look after myself. Or equally, I’m at the gym every day hitting my protein goal but I don’t ever self-reflect.”
And with the kind of compassion she brings to everything:
“Some days we’re there and some days we’re really not — and that’s why we really need Jesus.”
Her summary, in one sentence:
“Flourishing is noticing my utter dependence on Jesus whilst taking responsibility for my spirit, soul and body as well.”
Want to Connect with Jo?
📱 Instagram: @thefaithfilledtherapist
🎙️ Podcast: The Faithfield Therapy Podcast
✍️ Substack: Faith Filled Therapy
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